The recurrent theme of fatigue is present in the interviews, at the public NTSB hearing and in the conversation on the CVR. Safety, CRM, QA & Emergency Response Planning, A wide ranging forum for issues facing Aviation Professionals and Academics, Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies), The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions, Computer/Internet Issues & Troubleshooting, http://dms.ntsb.gov/public%2F55000-5...7%2F550788.pdf, http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/52137...ml#post8330120, http://dms.ntsb.gov/public%2F55000-5...7%2F550065.pdf. Since I really believe this took them by surprise, I'm also left wondering if they didn't know that the runway would be open so soon. I say this based on no calls for 500 ft, approaching minimums and minimums. Thank you, I grant that there can be a host of details, maybe even impossibilities that prevent establishing precision approaches at every runway. I could be wrong though. (11NEWS/Louisville, KY) (11NEWS/Louisville, KY). I believe we agree that the 1,000 foot call is at 1,000 feet above the airport, or about 1,600 MSL in this case. He's suing for a relatively low $2 million. "Would any pilots here actually have been offended by a dispatcher giving you a heads up about the closed runway and the fact that a non-precision approach on a short runway is what you have instead?". Most of us have never been concerned about what approach we got so just wanted to be headed for the hotel. By logging into your account, you agree to our. From the CVR transcript, the 1000ft call was done at 4:47:02,9, comparing with the FDR that would be about 1500ft or just above 1000ft on radio altimeter. Flyboyike says: F/Os aren't qualified to fly? the differences between asiana and ups is the difference between crawling (asiana, day visual apch, perfect wx) and running a marathon (ups, non precision, night/predawn, odd terrain and low scud). (I have also put my foot in my mouth) I learned some stuff, and one thing that has always been my opinion is that is never just 1 thing that leads to an accident. I would like to apologise for comparing this crew with the Korean crew in SFO. Patty Wagstaff has pictures of herself taken in uniform. But... now I have more questions. That document about survival factors and the injuries described sound like the captain died immediately, but the co-pilot could possibly have been saved, had there been a chance of immediate intensive care? Oh when will we ever learn? This site contains various Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR or Black Box) transcripts of aviation accidents and incidents. Lonewolf the crew were using the Jepp chart so whatever appeared on any other chart is irrelevant. Two pilots died. We know that instrument approach procedures include a key pilot decision no later than minimums that the requirements of 91.175(c) are met for continued descent and operation. In 38 plus years of flying I think there have been two pictures of me in uniform. Also, they call visual at 4:47:27.9 about 150ft radio altitude or just above 900ft. Further, all articles and publications found on jetPilots.com are distributed under educational fair use doctrine as noncommercial study or investigation directed toward making a contribution to a field of knowledge. There are many hours limits and so on - but I have not seen advice on adjusting to nocturnal patterns when the days off you have been given have adjusted you to normal circadian rhythms. If only ATC had let them know this was an option. As a previous poster, Tom Imrich in Post #92 noted, it's time to make use of available technology and put precision approaches at these runways. Either she was qualified, or she was not. I've had pictures taken in uniform. The get-there-itis is off the charts in the FedEx/UPS world as they want a bed ASAP. Thanks! Before long, it became apparent that the bolt had fractured on ground contact, which caused the agency considerable public embarrassment when they had to make another announcement that they were wrong. I firmly believe "opportunities for improvement in fatigue awareness and management among pilots and operators" is just NTSB speak to fill out the report and look good like so so many reports from AAIB and NTSB. The larger parallax created by the PAPI lights being only 47' above ground, instead of 75' above ground may have been enough to obscure them from the pilots view. Desert185's post #174 gives the distinct impression of a belief that if the F/O had been a guy the accident may not have happened. By that I mean if they had been vectored to the FAF and at BASKIN advised to be at or no lower at IMTOY than 1380' - "If NOT visual with the PAPI", this accident would not have happened. @Mana Ada...yup pretty much....no vertical situational awareness....need to check alt vs distance..it's published on the charts..possible they penetrated a small cloud layer shortly after sighting the "runway" and kept her going down, still believing they were above profile...either way...sloppy task sharing...but it was assumed, not briefed...would be interesting to see what UPS SOP's are regarding task sharing on a non-precision approach..especially after PF calls "runway in sight". tubby, we have thrashed this out in the Tech Log thread previously, and strictly speaking, since the Jepp chart was in error, as has been discussed, and the FAA chart was not, your choice to resurrect that rant is not understood. I do hope the mods remove your post asap. Possibly a leak / rumour? One of the worst things to do is come off several days off and go straight into a night shift. weather,smooth,routine and a good pro friends in cockpit have saved me from worse.as i have them,sometimes. Didn't they try to do that but :mad: it up somehow so the VNAV never captured? He also somehow failed homestudy training three times in 1991 and 1992 and failed recurrent FO sim training in 2007. ... what they hadn't catered for was poor ATC vectoring, inadequate charting of an approach, and specifically tiredness.The "specifically tiredness" also applies to ATC, so in that respect any laxity in ensuring vectors and assigned altitudes at way-points were adhered to, adds to the mess. The F/O had numerous glamour shots done of herself in uniform. Good points. Our tailored charts from Jepp have the airline name on them. Pilot's Union is a highly politicized organization, would be at the very bottom of my trustworthy list. Yes the second profile appears to be more accurate...I was having problems with the first one, because it shows them above profile above IMTOY, which would have not been possible given their rate of descent from 2500'.... "As well as a couple hundred feet below the PAPI slope at point of impact. DozyWannabe:...caused the NTSB to have their lead investigator hold a press conference which identified a broken engine mounting bolt as the primary causal factor of the accident before their metallurgist had been given a chance to inspect it. The extract below fairly well covers it: It appears the closing of runway 6/24 took them by surprise. They may have never seen the PAPIs because of weather obscuring their ability to see them. so ref,admitting that,i find a very good reason to be against any stretch of duty and flying hours,which seems to be the trend nowadays. Published on Feb 20, 2014. 11NEWS: UPS 1354 CREW REST COMMENTS. Maybe somebody with a lot more experience than I have could help me understand how this accident happened. Go to FATIGUE archive to read Cockpit Voice Recorder transcript. Approach to Landing, UPS Flight 1354, Airbus A300-600, N155UP, Birmingham, Alabama, August 14, 2013. for my ID card. I presume when the final report comes out we'll get a view on the roster flown. What works for me is a strong cup of coffee just before the drive home. @OBD Thanks for all your insightful posts. A single GBAS at an airport can enable precision approaches for practically every runway at the airport, perhaps even nearby airports for the price of a new approach procedure.
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